12hr thoughts and comments
So the race has been run and won (all prize winners up later in the day). But what did you think?
Here are some thoughts from some of the race organisers (Tony and myself):
-Race numbers were down - probable reason is that it is just too close to Christmas
-Timing system let us down badly and took away a certain amount of the atmosphere from the race
-The track was pretty good and there was plenty of good comments about it. Not too hard and easy to get up plenty of speed for the technically proficient.
- People kept the place looking pretty good. I can't remember seeing any rubbish out on the circuit. Well done.
From the event we have two conclusions
- the event needs to change date and time. One possible suggestion is the October long weekend and held from 10am to 10pm on the Sunday. Allows more people to attend, easier to set up and packup and not as much night riding. A lot more people from the bike industry can attend because Christmas isn't too close to the race and most shops will be closed.
This will be contensious with some people but from an organisation point of view Tony, Simon and myself spent up to 27hr awake on the day. I did it because I like to but it is pretyt taxing.
We could still have a six hour near to Christmas that is held 5pm to 11pm or 6pm to 12am for the nigth riders.
Give me your thoughts because I would like to plan this out now ready for next years calendar.
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Track - I think the track
Track - I think the track was awesome. Ive done the previous two 12 hours and one 6 hour at Jarra and beleive the track layout is the best its been. (The gravel was crap but its out of your controll)
Timing - I liked it how we didnt have to dismount when crossing the finish line, it helped keep the flow. Although it would have been nice to have the time you just ran up on the score board.
Date and Time - It would be nice to have it earlier in the year, but please DONT change the start time. 6pm to 6am is what makes the 12hour challenging for both the mind and body. Im strongly apposed to a 10am to 10pm race.
The only let down of the night were those assholes who put large rocks and stumps out onto the track, and who fooled around with one of the signs. Unfortuently there isnt much we can do about that.
Overall i thought this year was great, the 12 hour seems to get better each year.
Steve
I really enjoyed the 12 hr
I really enjoyed the 12 hr this year. The atmosphere was good, the track was good, I had a good ride. So all up it was fun for me. It was a shame about the timing system going offline, which meant that we couldn't have the presentations and thus proper closure for the event, but really this didn't sour the event for me.
Were the rider numbers down that much? Last year there was about 105 teams, this year there were 95. Doesn't seem a huge difference to me. It seemed there was a similar number of riders out on the track when I was riding. I was pretty happy with the number of riders on the track.
The track did seem to shape up pretty well during the night, and I didn't see much trash on my dawn lap. I know there is a rear light out there somewhere just after the big climb, as it fell off my bike and then I couldn't find it. There was some random drunken elements out there during the night moving logs around, into the line of the track, which was pretty dangerous really. They were also skulking next to the track and scared the bejesus out of me on one lap. I could do without that, but can't really see how you stop it.
As to rescheduling the 12 hr I am not so sure. The fact that it is through the night is what makes this event unique. I really enjoy the Jarrahdale 6hr during the day, so I guess I will enjoy a daytime 12hr. But it certainly won't be the same type of event. You may also lose a lot of potential racers on the October long weekend as a lot of people will take the weekend to go on holiday.
I don't see any point in having a December 6hr from 6pm to 12am. This will be too similar a race and too close on the calender to the Round tu it 6hr. Also would you expect people to pack up and go home after the race, at 1am, in the dark? Seems crazy to me. Conversely if people stay until dawn before packing up then why not just have the 12hr anyway? The Round tuit night 6 hr works because it is so far from Perth that everyone camps that night anyway, and they put on breakfast the following morning so everyone can shoot the breeze together.
Just some of my thoughts.
Great Fun
This years track was really fast, which was a lot nicer on the rump because there was a lot less log-overs ect, to deal with. There was also no Killa pain giving uphills which was good too!
And as for the future, I reckon you should keep it random, If we make it too easy and soft we might as well become "rodies". ;)
I'm happy with the times 6 to 6 and as for the date, It doesn't matter to me, I'm coming regardless.
The Excel document results that has been released is alot easer to read and hander than last years one, thats for sure!
I'll be up for any other 6 hours you might want to throw in.
Firstly well done to John,
Firstly well done to John, Tony, Simon and all the organisers, I appreciate the time and effort that it takes to organise a all night event like this.
I am ready for a change, what you suggest sounds like a great idea. I think you would have a lot more riders that work in retail or bike shops attending, working in reatil with Sunday trading must suck. As John metioned the organisers who virtually spent 27hour a wake , I just wonder the people who are all for the current format, lend a hand with the setting up and packing up with this event.
Regards
Mavic
as opposed to the long
as opposed to the long weekend we could also look at a sunday race going from 9am to 9pm or 10-10 that allows for a festival ending a bigger better sound system that extends into part of the course and an opportunity to shot the breeze at the end of the race. Current date I'm looking at is Sunday 23rd November. It would still allow for a few hours of catching up, in bed by1am at the absoulte latest for the diehards and back to work the following day or take the day off work on Monday to chill out, camp and think about what a good time you had.
Keep your comments coming.
Timing of the event
It is a long and time consuming thing to organise an event such as this, so credit to those involved. Unfortunately, as with all things, it is hard to please everyone with regards to dates and times, and this is an issue that seems to raise its head every year.
Previous 12Hrs have been held over the Easter weekend, and in early/mid January before settling on the current weekend for the past 3 or so years. As mentioned previously, placing the event on a long weekend and during the school holidays (such as the Sept/Oct one proposed) may turn people away.
Secondly, and one would have to look at the calendar as a whole, holding the event in Oct may also clash with the 'normal' race season, which may lead to a drop in numbers in XC races as people are training/resting for the 12Hr. On the other hand, the trend may be in the opposite direction, with the regular racers concentrating on the season that has been in progress since mid-March, and thus not committing to the 12Hr.
Regarding the time of the event, I quite enjoy the current time as it provides additional challenges, both mental and physical. It is what makes this endurance event unique compared with others such as Anaconda and Ironman in that it is run over night. It also helps escape most of the heat which allows it to be run in the summer when no regular races are on.
Anyway, my 2c
I thought perhaps the
I thought perhaps the numbers were down because there is so much else going on - the anaconda was much later this year and moore river multisport not long before that. More people are getting into multisport and adventure racing - things like the caffeinated and teva ARs earlier in the year grabbed people's attention too (they have much shinier advertising, and the advantage of not involving as much hard work as 12h of riding!). Also the jarrahdale 6h was not that long ago, was heaps of fun, hugely popular, and in the daytime. It didn't mess up your whole weekend and didn't seem so daunting. Personally i prefer daunting, but i can see how a lot of people preferred the 6h. Most of the general punters just do their one event a year so really people need a reason to choose the 12h over other things (and from my quick scan of the results, it seemed to be the general punters and not the hardened bikers who were missing). 10 fewer teams might not seem much, but every other race seems to keep doubling in size.
Not sure if (or how) this is fixable. Perhaps call it an adventure race- it doesn't seem to matter what the race actually involves, as long as you call it one...
Getting ranger on board and having a dedicated website was a great idea.
Is it possible to look at other calendars or coordinate with other event organisers? In similar vein, almost all the MTB orienteering events clashed with XC races this year, which was why I didn't race xc more often. I spoke to MTBO about this before, and it might be different next year.
Having the 12h in oct/nov might put it only a week or 2 before/after anaconda, which might put some people off.
Twas a good 12hr
I don't think you should change it. The challenge is lasting through the night, and for those who don't want that there is a 6hr race to do earlier in the year! Also, having it during the day in December could get very hot and uncomfortable. And its nice to have it done before Christmas too, this allows riders to relax over the holiday and not worry too much about training and staying off the booze!
Well done to the organizers though, it was done very well. The track was great. And everything else seemed to run smoothly.
One thing that could be improved would be being able to see your race position on screen. And having a big ass clock for riders to see the time as they go for the next lap.
The lower amount of teams could be attributed to the Ironman only a week earlier, but not really sure on the influence of that. Perhaps people are just tired from the election or something!
Cant wait till next years!
Woop Woop
Pete
I had a great time at the 12
I had a great time at the 12 hr this year.
I thought the rider numbers may have been down cos on my last 2 laps I saw no-one on the track. Last year the track seemed busier for more of the night.
Track was fantastic, the distance was perfect and it included some hills, technical and fast flowy singles - a great mix. I found last years track was a touch too long and wasn't as flowy as this years...
As for rescheduling the time of the event, it is torturous because our bodies aren't used to riding at race pace at 4am (well not mine anyway) and it's cold etc etc. But like other people said, making it through all of that is an achievement. It is a unique race because it is at night, this could either attract or discourage people - depending on their night riding experience.
It might be worth having it half in the day and half in the night with people having to camp the rest of the night - like the 6 hr. This way people could still manage some sleep and wouldn't be quite as wrecked on the following day. So yeah starting at 1pm - 1am. This will satisfy the night riders and also give the less experienced riders some riding time during the day. How about not having the normal 6 hr at J'dale and having a 12 hr soon after that time which is half day half night. It could be after the race season finishes. So that people are still fit, but rested and it's not so close to Christmas.
What about canvasing different organisations to put teams into the event. Or even getting an organisation like the Asthma foundation or Leukemia foundation on board - like the Great BIke ride, and people could enter the race in the hope to raise funds for these organisations. The great bike ride was pretty huge so I'm sure we could muster up a fair amount of people also?
I think the event is
I think the event is awesome, it was well organised and great fun - thanks to everyone involved; I dont think I have heard a bad thing said about it (except re. things out of your control - dodgy boguns spoiling the track and a tempramental timing system)
I dont think the event needs to change dates. if your worried about numbers how about more advertising? I dont recall seeing any posters in bike shops, on busy commuter routes or in any magazines.
I also think you have to keep it as a night ride - its a brilliant format and would be spoilt if it were run through the day (how about a seperate 12hr daytime one in winter!). If the organising does get too much (which I can imagine it does) how about contracting an event organising consultant or chatting with other, larger sporting organisations, on how they manage large events (I'm thinking the people behind Anaconda etc). I'm sure there are people out there who can help out - maybe at a cost but I'm sure all costs could be covered by either sponsorship or a slightly higher entrance fee.
Thanks again for all your hard work
I wouldnt like it if....
Im a motorsport fan, i have drifted at wannaroo for years and am going to be competeing in the 2008 Australian Safari. How does this influence my opinion of the 12hr?? well i do these things cause there out of the normal! I love the long night time event, i make my own lights, i love being able to turn the lights on and do a lap! The 12hour is my favourite physical event of the year! did it last year and eagerly awaited the 364 day prep for the next! I reckon you should have the event a little sooner in the year ! Mainly cause then i wont have to wait so long till the next one, and as you already know, it leaves more people available to attend! Most guys i know say that they cant cause they have to work the sunday!
So i reckon the events great, just a little sooner in the year! And maybe the 6hour should be closer to Perth!
Anything that slides or has two wheels!!
In the garage -
1991 Nissan Silvia, matt black 300hp drifter!! Insane fun!
2007 Suzuki DRZ400E , The 2008 Australian Safari weapon!! Gunna be mad fun!
2006 Giant Alias, great bike and matchs my riding skill! ha
My Two cents
GREAT event. Well done guys!
The track go faster (even if I didn't) as the night wore on, other than some random bogan activitity, all was very good.
The dark is what makes this such an event. I mean, 12 hrs solo in the day time would seem a little passe after doing it in the dark.
However, i think the way to work this through is to list the clubs aims for this event and others and then see what fits.
The 6 hr was a roaring participation suscees (or so i am lead to belive - didn't they have to limit entiries), where as the 12 hr is about kudos - the six hour is about doing it - now come play with the serious folks . . . .
Love you all . . . . .
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I may be slow but I an't dumb
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I did not ride.
I didn't ride the 12 hr and have not for the past couple of years. Why? It's just not possible for me to spend 36+hrs awake on a weekend.
PLEASE! consider some more sensible options. Sure, keep plenty of night riding if you want, but at least give us a chance to participate.
Dave
PS - I may also be fat and lazy - that could be the other reason.
I personally love the
I personally love the format.
The time of day is what makes the event. I thought the track was great. The organisation could not be faulted.
But as as an office bearer in another organisation, I know how hard it is to run big event with little help. That should be the only reason you should consider changing the event. If it has to change for that reason, it is not your fault, it is the entire MTB community for not supporting you.
I can see December being an issue with bike shops, because my one of my team mates owns one. Why was the race moved from January? I know from experience that heat can be an issue, or was school holidays keeping numbers down also?
I really hope you don't have to change it. Riding 3/4 of a twelve hour in daylight just doesn't seem the same.
You need help but don't change it!
I was part of a group of guys who raced in this event for the first time, in fact it was the first time that most of us had raced on a bike. We had an absolute blast - I can't stop talking about it. This is a first class event!
John and the other organisers are to be congratulated. Great job guys, the scale of what's required blew us away.
The overnight riding is what makes this event - I think to change this would change the very nature of the race and this would be to its detriment. It's unique and thats the biggest selling point. Its pretty close to Anaconda and I hear that this could have meant fewer riders, but I think with some crafty and pretty simple promotion and PR that the lower numbers could be overcome.
I personally would have no issue with paying more to participate. This money could be spent hiring some grunts to do the labour and leave the organisers to enjoy the event.
We had six new riders across two teams and I am sure we're all back next year, probably with a few more of us. You may even see a few of us in other events, all on the back of this unique format race and a bike mad mate who's passion for the sport got us to the starting line - great job Franko.
Thanks to all the other riders. There is a real sense of community here, and you all added to a fantastic night. Nice one.
For starters, another great
For starters, another great 12 hour event.
And second I've never seen the Jarrahdale track this clean ever, even with the deep gravel rutted downhill sections. And importantly the climbs were much cleaner, but I'd would have like some chicken lines for some of the other logs.
As for change of time and date...
Race date should be pushed earlier if needed to avoid the summer heat, which we were lucky to avoid this year. Something like the 6 hour at the start of November (or in October) and the 12 Hour at the end of November?
I still prefer the 1800-0600 (dusk till dawn) 12 hour race, because too much time in daylight heat is very taxing on the body especially for an early summer race. Times like 1000-2200, 0700-1900 (good for those without lights) sound pretty painful to me. But if we moved the 12 hour to winter, the weather can be very nice for a daylight race, a 24 hour race could be feasible; of cause there's the risk of washing the race out due to winter storms. And that would be terrible.
Respect, jonowee
Granny-gearing since 1987.
Thanks for all the great
Thanks for all the great comments.
I'm getting the feeling that 6pm-6am is the way to go. I have also had some very good emails and it is great to see that a lot of you do it for the extra challenge of the night time.
I know making it earlier would help numbers and I am wary of making it too close to the Anaconda.
We could get in an event management company and numbers would go up. We would probably want to limit numbers to 500 for Jarrahdale and an event management company may mean putting the fees up substantially. The lcub has run this event and continues to run the event to keep the tradition alive and to raise money for our various other pursuits throughout the year.
As for advertising I take full responsibility for that (needed to deligate a few more things). We had some great posters made and I got them out to the bigger shops throughout Perth but not all shops. We didn't have the signs up on the River bike path and unfortunately despite me telling the editor of Enduro Magazine that I really wanted to advertise in his mag he never got back to me.
A few weeks earlier will hopefully help the bike shops get involved and plpenty of other people who hear about how great the event is. Having hte race in January also just extends the year out and means no time off for hte volunteers.
thanks for your support and I look forwar to see you all out riding soon.
hey, if paying a few dollars
hey, if paying a few dollars more would make the 12 hour better, then i personally dont have a problem with it.
Im sure with more riders we could have more sponsors, which in turn would help keep the costs down?
steve
5 Cents worth....
Didn't get to the 12hr but did the 6 in august which was fantastic...the standout thing for me then was how the 6hr appealed to the average janes/joes. Reading the latest thoughts on 12 hr, it seems to me like they are all quite serious, purest riders (which is fantastic!) but you have to realise that the average rider may be daunted by doing it for 12hrs (even in a team), night riding and having an event that runs over 2 w/end days - that's why the 6hr was so successful and had record participation, because it was a do-able half day event, in the cool of August with only half the number of laps to do!! An 8hr daytime springtime one could be a compromise??
Full credit to the event organisers, you guys are one hell of a bunch of people...but any event hinges on the help it receives and all of us MTB'rs need to be doing heaps more to help out not just doing the riding and writing thank you letters to John.
another 5 cents
I agree with the 6pm to 6am - it is what makes the event so special. Sure it is tough but hey - most of us don't ride cause it's easy.
I think what is most important is that everyone who rode had a great time not just numbers up or numbers down.
I was really happy to see so many people out there who looked liked they hadn't done much mountain bike riding let alone a 12 hr race. Well done to those folk - some of them weren't spring chickens either!
I would ride the 12 hr no matter when it's held but I guess you would have to be mindful of other events such as the GBR, Anaconda etc.
Would love to do some point to point races next year - I know there was talk of them.
Lastly - thanks to all the people who helped out.
Pete aka Team Elks.
12hr vs 6hr
"it seems to me like they are all quite serious, purest riders"
I disagree. For me, who takes races reasonably seriously, the 12 hour had a far more relaxed party atmosphere, with far more costumes and the like coming out. Sure, you have to ride at night. But with a good set of lights its not a massively big deal.
The 6 hour for me was rock up, race, go home tired. Not too much to laugh at and enjoy in between.
Riding all night is just so much fun! And there is no better feeling than riding while the sun is coming up in the morning. Pure bliss!
Woop Woop
Pete
A point to point race, now
A point to point race, now there is a logistical and approval nightmare! I would love to run a point to point and someone even suggested a really good route. but there is no chance of getting it approved because of the Department of Water and Water Corporation because our breath let alone our tyres will polute our water!
Thats not to say that an unoffical point to point race amongst a big group of friends wouldn't happen.
I would also say that the 12hr is far from serious. The most serious commetns coming from the forum are coming from some pretty unserious riders (not to throw any insults). Most of the people commenting are commenting because htey love the event more than the actual competitive side I would suggest.
My 5 cents worth
Hiya people.
John i'll be there on the 23rd, of november, its my B'day. Shit hot 35..
But if it doesn't happen, I'll still be there to hang about, shit i might even put in some effort and ride, But apart from that everything seems pretty good.
I personally would like the feeling that at the end of the race people weren't packing up there tents at 5am, would it help the religous if were held a prayer after the race to the dirt gods, so they didn't rush off to church......., we could all thenm hold a brunch, i'll organise the pastries....
P.S I'm now a City of Perth worker, and if you think i can hear a bikebell, with a 79 Decibel blower, and hearing protection on , u got another thing coming.. So be nice to me and my friends, on the cycle paths.Beware the men in bright Green,and orange...
Talk Later People
Jackthelad